this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2009
186 points (63% like it)
426 up votes 240 down votes

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AlucardZero 304 points305 points 4 months ago[-]

Fake is not attractive.

kloo2yoo 56 points57 points 4 months ago[-]

ding! the makeup and overstyled hair is awful.

knowing that 90% of the pics are retouched doesn't help either.

zeMVK 24 points25 points 4 months ago[-]

Couldn't agree more. I see way too many women use it excessively. Its a major turn off. Some women use make up lightly though, and I find that ok. I prefer a natural look. The worse thing is when women shave their eyebrows, makes me shiver. Usually I prefer when women just make it easier on themselves. I can accept all the make up and etc for special occasions, but on daily basis? Natural and simplicity is way better in my books.

Its_Always_420 15 points16 points 4 months ago[-]

Yeah shaving the eyebrows is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen girls do to themselves. Even worse when they try to draw them back on with the pencil. That seems like an idea somebody had in the depths of a crack binge.

vault101 10 points11 points 4 months ago[-]

Either that, or they singed their eyebrows off by accident and then tried to Tom Sawyer everyone else into doing it, because they were clearly having such a good time drawing on their eyebrows...

Fake eyebrows creep me right the fuck out. What happens when they have a shower? Do their eyebrows come off? Do not want!

mwilke 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

Upvote for using Tom Sawyer as a verb. Yes.

beckettman 85 points86 points 4 months ago[-]

Agreed. Megan Fox gets my vote for this. I don't see the appeal really. A kind and friendly disposition easily beats makeup. If we are comparing celebrities then Kaylee from Firefly Working on a greasy engine is far more attractive than Megan Fox dry humping a motorcycle in Transformers.

eigen 36 points37 points 4 months ago[-]

Kaylee is cuuuute.

wyfflemunky 7 points8 points 4 months ago[-]

There's one scene in one episode--I think any fan of Firefly will know what I'm talking about--that turned my opinion of her UPSIDE DOWN.

But in a good way. I think...

thatpaulbloke 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

What can I say? She just likes engines.

Farktoid 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

I'll be in my bunk.

Tourniquet 9 points10 points 4 months ago[-]

Looks like I've got another show I need to start watching.

foocs 19 points20 points 4 months ago[-]

Don't worry, it won't take you long to get caught up... and then to become indignant and ready to write an angry letter to Fox.

frreekfrreely 15 points16 points 4 months ago[-]

This! One night I watched Serenity on HBO. A couple of days later I saw that my friend had the series on DVD. I borrowed it and watched all of them that day. When I returned it and asked if I could borrow the next season he informed me that there wasn't one. RAAAGE!

saladami 7 points8 points 4 months ago[-]

Sounds like one of those FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU comics waiting to happen.

mominapan 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

It's not the look you dislike it's the confidence. If you were a woman and knew that almost every man that looked at you had some form of uncontrollable sexual desire for you it would be incredible. Having the girl next door that is sweet and kind is fine. This will satisfy our ability to have a woman that can nurture us like our Mother's. The porn girl has been subliminally digested by all of us. She will walk past you and you will look at her and look down immediately because she is our societies interpretation of perfect. So maybe the bleached asshole and perfect tits isn't your game, but I will tell you that for most of us it's just not attainable (unless hired). My opinion is that I just love all of them. I think about all of them.

coredump 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

She played a doctor in Stargate Atlantis as well.

poringo 18 points19 points 4 months ago[-]

I'd easily have kaylee over megan fox. I don't really like megan fox, at all. She's a pornstar that isn't. On the other hand Kaylee is just so damn cute, I'd feel bad for fucking her, but would do it anyway.

unreadycincinnatus 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

It has been established that Kaylee is a bit of a sex fiend. Don't beat yourself up too much for giving the lady what she wants.

Smokalotapotamus 7 points8 points 4 months ago[-]

If you'd feel bad for doing it, then you're doing it wrong chump.

Mugbot 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Or right. So very right.

madforpancakes 12 points13 points 4 months ago[-]

agreed. I was talking to my girlfriend the other day about this and she couldn't understand how I didn't find Megan Fox particularly attractive. She just has "skank" written all over her

bgstratt 13 points14 points 4 months ago[-]

TOE THUMBS!!!

BamBam-BamBam 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I wonder if she's developed a complex about it, yet?

laurasaurus 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

/shudder

brazilliandanny 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

Or Carey from myth busters blow'n shit up.

kaltra 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

Have a look at these pics. http://www.wwtdd.com/2009/11/todays-top-story-6/megan-fox-brian-austin-green-9/

Megan Fox looks fantastic with little make up. I do agree though, once they put all the make up on, she becomes less attractive.

knives_out 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

She's still wearing quite a bit of make-up. The shots are from a distance, but it's obvious.

beckettman 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I havn't seen her without the all the airbrushing and CGI before. She does look alot better. Less like a product and more like a human being.

aristotle2600 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Damn, way better. Hollywood is stupid.

SweetiPie 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Megan Fox totally has a porn star face. She kind of reminds me of a blow up doll.

Anon1991 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I'd probably bang Kaylee before Inara simply because of the excessive makeup that Inara wears (like when she had all that red and gold makeup on, especially.)

lpfff 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Megan Fox is the fakest hollywood muse ever.

solzhen 41 points42 points 4 months ago[-]

Fake boobs are a turnoff.

Too much Makeup is a turnoff.

No man is going to turn down a cute chick because her face is a little oily today or her boobs aren't a perfect sized C cup.

I like my women natural. A little lip gloss or eyeliner now and then can be nice, just don't overdo it. But heavy lipstick and caked on makeup that gets all over me when we make out is gross. Also, most lipstick doesn't taste very good and you get it all over my water bottle we're sharing now and I'm trying to drink from it without putting my lips on it so I don't taste lipstick-water. :p

Also, go easy on the perfume. I don't bathe myself in cologne, just a little that you can't even really smell unless you hug me. So please return the favor and go light on that stuff.

13374L 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Fake boobs are a turnoff.

If I can touch them, they're real to me.

solzhen 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

don't get much, huh?

ertaisi 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Oh, do tell us all about your fake experiences, I'm implanted in my seat in anticipation.

masterbaker 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

When you do eventually touch fake ones, or real ones, whichever comes first. Compare the two. One will feel nice, and the other...well you'll see.

nippolopolis 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I loathe perfume on men or women. I love the way plain ole soap smells on a guy. You have to get really close to smell it, hence why I love it so much.

PurpleDingo 10 points11 points 4 months ago[-]

Fake is far from attractive, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the attraction to it is fake, too. It's a vicious cycle.

Natural girls FTW

misterorange 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

Agreed. All of the women in my life have spent the majority of their time with me sans makeup, and that's just the way I like it.

It's funny, makeup is actually not -horrible- if used in moderation...and sometimes it gets to the point where I have to ask my gf to wear makeup and she goes "Really? I thought you didn't like it..." and I tell her I don't, but every once in awhile is nice ;]

Adagio 10 points11 points 4 months ago[-]

You ask her to?

improbablyhigh 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

tells.

ayeeFOOL 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

both in looks AND in personality.

TheYellowDart 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Right? Go ahead and get plastic surgery; you'll still be ugly on the inside.

matthank 30 points31 points 4 months ago[-]

Pamela ANDERSON LOOKS LIKE AN ARTIFICIAL HUMAN.

pboleo 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

You call Pamela an artificial human ? What do you call this ?

psilokan 13 points14 points 4 months ago[-]

I'm afraid to click that link...

[deleted] 10 points11 points 4 months ago[-]

It cannot be unseen

[deleted] 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

My whole body experienced an uncontrollable spasm combined with a "ahhoowaahh!" at the sight of that horrible excuse for a creature.

witide 61 points62 points 4 months ago[-]

I wouldn't say that it's ugly per se. It's just fake, and that makes it no more attractive than looking at a doll.

Now, a curvy girl who is confident, funny and interesting is probably the most attractive thing on the planet, to my normal male mind.

clisteroo 25 points26 points 4 months ago[-]

Not a big fan of make up and fake boobs. I like em a little chubby in the thigh and butt section and cute in the face...

omynx 11 points12 points 4 months ago[-]

please enlight me... as a girl i don't understand that... when i gain weight it all goes in my butt and thighs and I hate it!!! on the other hand... men find more me more attractive than when I am skinnier... I don't get it...

PrettyCoolGuy 25 points26 points 4 months ago[-]

There was a thread about this yesterday, I think. Basically it came down to: men like women with a little meat, but women are involved in competition with other women to be the thinnest even though this is not what most men want. Conversely, look at all those guys who get 'roided up. To most women, this is not really desirable but men do it anyway to compete with other men to be the manliest.

omynx 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

it is not a competition about being thinner... i don't care how thin or curvy other girls are.. as a matter of fact i dislike the 'malnourished' look... its a personal visual preference... big thighs and butt cut off the continuity of your legs making them appear shorter... it is about proprotion.. and besides... it feels weird when your thighs touch =) slender legs go well with the slender figure (aesthetically pleasing disposition) however, bulky men are just visually not appealing.. their proportions are out of whack!!!

multirachael 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

That's very interesting; my white friend and I have this conversation all the time (I'm multiracial) about what the "ideal shape" in our culture is. From her POV, she thinks the ideal female shape is with a high, tight, small butt and slender thighs, and to get it you exercise, exercise, exercise. From my POV, I favor a round, slightly wide, jiggly butt and curvy legs--thighs that touch at the top and taper down to the knees, nice round calves.

We've talked about it from a psychological and sociological perspective. Her ideas seem to be about control, about dedication to one's body and one's health being manifested physically. I think mine are more about maternal imagery--the proportion of a mother-figure, with exaggerated "female parts" (breasts, hips, butt) and nourishing fat. It's also a tactile thing for me--male or female, I like the idea of soft bodies, especially when they're nekkid :)

What do you think about that? Do you think there's a cultural component? Not assuming that you're white, of course, just wondering if you think that your particular culture plays a part in informing that idea?

omynx 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

Actually, you have brought up an interesting point. There is definetely a cultural component to it, however, it can probably be broken down geographically as well. I agree with your statement that certain cultures prefer certain body shapes. Asian and white cultures tend to view 'slender' as the optimal shape, while other cultures consider curves more appealing. However, that "dedication to one's body and one's health being manifested physically" I think it is predominant in the NA culture. European "white" culture's perception of what is attractive definetely differs. Again, slim and delicate (but unlike NA, not muscular) is preferred over curvy and jiggly, but such look is by no means achieved through exercise but through portion control (for the reference point I am eastern-european). I think that is because there is another aspect to this conversation that we did not consider and that is the availability/access to sport activities. I think athletes have different preceptions of what is attractive. In NA people have an easy access to sport activities (in many other countries such access is limited). Consequently, through sports this view of "healthy body" is cultivated (and that healthy body image is: toned & achieved through streneous exercise). I do note that my view may be biased by my personal experience. Through college, most of my teammates were non-white and yet a good percentage of them viewed muscular shape as optimal and prefered it over 'curvy'. We all came from different cultures but most of us had a the same idea of what is attractive: "toned, tight and rather thin" (and interestingly enough, that view differed from a 'popular' view in our respective cultures - i.e. I find muscular/fit thin to be attractive while my culture considers that 'too manly' and a 'delicate slender shape' is optimal... my senegalese teammate who was very fit was considered 'too manly' because in her culture 'curvy and soft' shape is optimal). I think it is a mix of many things including culture and upbringing =)

cyantist 9 points10 points 4 months ago* [-]

From an evolutionary psychology perspective, what is attractive is correlated to what is better for reproduction. Slightly exaggerated female characteristics are more readily attractive because they make the girl more readily identifiable as a good, viable reproductive host.

So as your butt sticks out it says "hey, look at me, only girls have butts like me!" and as your thighs fatten up they yell "we're ready for pregnancy, come get this girl preggers!" to the evolved male labido.

It's evolution that causes women to gain weight in their butt and thighs first, studies show that it is physiologically advantageous during pregnancy, and guys with genes that get them to go after women with physiological advantages will have more kids that are more successful at reproduction themselves, so over time we've come to a point where it's just straight up attractive that a girl has some meat on her butt and thighs.

Even white boys gotta shout..

Dax420 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

Guys don't like women that look like they will break after the first use.

Anyone under a size 2 is nasty IMHO.

krueg1kt 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

You might be surprised at how much skinny girls can handle.

omynx 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

it is possible to be hard to break and slender ;) lol.. Look at Reggie Miller

cassidoodle 68 points69 points 4 months ago* [-]

I have a few thoughts I'd like to share on the subject as a female member of the reddit community. Most of you guys, who help complete the reddit hivemind, are making reasonable assessments about the importance of reality.

At this moment, the portion of our human population that would argue you is probably busy waking up on a floor of vomit and piss in an dorm they've never visited before. They wouldn't have had any good points to make about the actual issue, anyhow.

The issue I feel is most important to address, is the effect of false advertising on otherwise-reasonable young women out there. I think it was my thirteenth birthday when my own grandmother subscribed me to Seventeen magazine. I remember being extremely upset... not understanding the importance of applying a mask when you've already got a face, blowing all your money on the newest rack of clothes in the most expensive store, and following the lead of some editor who gets paid to whitewash the idea front for the most impressionable portion of our society -- the confused, prepubescent representatives of our future. It's hard to tell if these types of magazines are supposed to be received as presents-- or, as tools for important development.

Sorry for the rant, but I really appreciate it that some guys out there that don't give attention to the beauty icons of misled younger women. When less men pay attention to these farces, it does nothing but help cultivate desperately-needed change in advertising tactics.

These young women don't deserve to be shackled to such unrealistic images until they've even learnt they had a choice. Sorry if that was a bit heavy, but... yeah.

Edit: Tried to clarify a few spots...

cyancynic 44 points45 points 4 months ago[-]

These young women don't deserve to be shackled to such unrealistic images

Precisely.

There are much more entertaining things to shackle young women to.

Tickthokk 17 points18 points 4 months ago[-]

Radiators.

podobuzz 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

Makes it easier to grape them.

cassidoodle 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

YES

multirachael 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

I remember the first time I ever looked in a magazine and went, "Wow, I wish I looked like these women!" It was a Plus-Size magazine. All the women were curvy and smiling and looked like they were having a great time. They seemed confident and comfortable, not like the super-thin, morose and moody-looking women in other magazines. They seemed approachable.

If we could foster that image in young women--that it's attractive to be happy, self-confident, comfortable and friendly, regardless of size, skin color, hair type, etc.--I think it would do great things.

flfolks 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

This is not unique to the female gender.

Not to say that it isn't an issue, but you never seem to hear about the other side.

barneypoppins 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

May you elaborate? I can only think of hyper-sexual stamina being an issue for men.

jesster114 16 points17 points 4 months ago[-]

Having a lack of emotions, muscled fame and the idea that you're only worth something if you are with a perfect 10. I can't even remember how long it took me to realize that crying is actually ok to do.

I've had more than enough body issues throughout my life that still haunt me to a degree. Plus, if you don't make enough money as a guy, you can't keep up with paying for the things your perfect 10 wants.

barneypoppins 10 points11 points 4 months ago[-]

I'm sorry for that.

If it helps any, I'm perfectly fine with men having emotions because I see myself strong enough to help or at least support them. I also get pissed at girls (who aren't necessarily bitches) who behave as if they should be the only ones who need emotional support or someone to vent to. I've known of girls who were uncomfortable with guys crying or feeling scared.

I'm also very lucky that my scorned mom and grandma told me to only get with "nice guys" (which were to be unlike their husbands) and to concentrate on supporting myself (academically and financially) since I can remember. Additionally, as a girl, I used to feel worthless for not being a 10 or not being financially able to have my hairs/nails/eyebrows done and wear cute clothes and shoes.

I only write this to remind you some chicks don't care about this sort of crap.

philosarapter 6 points7 points 4 months ago[-]

But.. but... how are we supposed to objectify them as sex objects if we don't first make them feel as though they aren't good enough?

cassidoodle 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

The only solution I can think of involves implementing some sort of device that confuses women enough to turn them into zombies that are after sex. If you just remove her brain and put your junk in the resulting hole, I think you'll find that you can successfully mindfuck her into it.

philosarapter 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Without the oppressive media enforcing values, I guess its back to the old ways of kidnapping, raping and pillaging villages for women. sigh

cleverkid 2 points3 points 4 months ago* [-]

Well put, there is an amazing book out there called 'Reviving Ophelia' by Mary Pipher that details much of this in a sociological study. It's sad stuff, but you have a solid take on it.

...oh and no girls on the internet and all that.

cassidoodle 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

When I finished & reread my little rant, I felt a little bit like crazy old V. Woolf.

cleverkid 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

...I ain't skeered.

supaphly42 24 points25 points 4 months ago[-]

Cute > Hot

cyantist 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

100%

Love cute girls > Go crazy over hot girls

Hot girl: you want a night with. Cute girl: you want to spend every waking moment around.

frutiger 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Cute girl: you want to spend every waking moment around.

Eugh. Nausea-inducing.

mass-debate 26 points27 points 4 months ago[-]

The same could be said for professional porn actresses too. They cake on the make up and look terrible, which is why I only fap it to amateur porn.

I prefer the "Plain Jane" look. A lot of my friends think I'm weird because of it.

cameronobscura 12 points13 points 4 months ago[-]

Combine that with the theatrics (breathing through the teeth, moaning when there's nary a dick near a kitty, etc.), it's all a big turnoff. I'll just go back to peeping on my neighbors, thanks.

h2odysee 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

"Professional" porn and fake orgasms are so not sexy to me. I'm at a loss as to why these studios are making money.

Yuvutu.com FTW.

Artmageddon 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Hi-I can't add comments to my saved list(or if I can I have no idea how), so I'm just... I mean not bookmarking this at all. Nope. Nothing in the way of future use here. Just moving along...

unchow 6 points7 points 4 months ago[-]

I am so done with professional porn. I can't watch it anymore.

ephemeron0 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

agreed that caked-on makeup, wigs or Hair extensions, penciled eyebrows, overwhelming perfume, etc...has always been more of an obstacle to beauty, in my opinion. a real turn-off.

but, what is worse is the parallel "I'm a total pain in the ass." attitude.

beautiful people with a healthy, stable perspective are a truly rare find.

the_dub 13 points14 points 4 months ago[-]

1970's porn can't be topped.

scatmandruthers 18 points19 points 4 months ago[-]

Hard, tanned, bleached, dyed, hairless, muscular, painted...

The result is a completely unfuckable Hot Tranny Mess. So many "hot chicks" look like drag queens these days it's laughable.

molslaan 9 points10 points 4 months ago[-]

Just because they've an 8 inch sleeper between their legs doesn't mean they're trannies. Uh no wait.

FoggyO 19 points20 points 4 months ago[-]

I've always felt this way about Halle Berry, Paris Hilton, and Megan Fox.

vault101 46 points47 points 4 months ago[-]

Megan Fox is beyond overrated. I really just don't understand the appeal there. She's also dumb as rocks, so maybe that adds to my disdain for her.

gezis 6 points7 points 4 months ago[-]

Agreed, and she has a toe-thumb!

evlpengwyn 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I think that's also a source of appeal... lots of guys don't want a girl that's smarter than them, and there's TONS of really dumb guys out there. Think your average youtube-video-commenter dumb.

ColdMountain 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

I like to think that they're just one guy. It makes me feel better about humanity.

TheCid 23 points24 points 4 months ago[-]

Halle Berry doesn't really belong in that list of names.

kamikaze63 28 points29 points 4 months ago[-]

I would disagree with you on Halle Berry - to me, she is hot without being fake hot.

monobot3 6 points7 points 4 months ago[-]

She went to my high school. Very cute back then. Sadly, I was too young and exponentially too nerdy to puts my moves on hers.

kamikaze63 6 points7 points 4 months ago[-]

Pretty sure that my nuts would have sucked back up into my abdomen anytime I would have tried to talk to her. I can understand your hesitation.

N3otron 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

No, sorry I disagree about putting Halle Berry in that list.

lastbroadcast 28 points29 points 4 months ago[-]

I know all you guys here are saying how much you like 'Natural Beauty' and all that crap, but all I ever seem to notice is the fake-ass, TRASHY girls in my school getting boned by guys all the time. You may not want to date those girls, but you sure do fuck them a lot, and that makes us er...not whorebag girls respect you a lot less. Just a thought.

momoichigo 41 points42 points 4 months ago[-]

I feel this is a giant circle jerk of "We would like to believe we're good people who don't care for fake beauties" too.

Every time men get an opportunity to comment on something like this they claim to like plump girls or not like girls wearing make up.

From experience? Not true.

Every time a guy friend of mine, or even my fiance who claims to like plump girls without make up, says someone is "beautiful" or "hot" or "pretty" or "I'd date her", that person is neither "plump" or "all natural".

What is true is guys seem to not be able to differentiate a little make up and no make up. I tested them a few times and when I can tell someone has "natural looking make up" on, the guys will say the girl has no make up.

My boyfriend who claims to like "plump" girls who are no smaller than a size 6, commented on how much "hotter" I look when I became a size 0. What size did he think I was? 16? I was a 6~8 for the majority of the time when we were together other (4 out of 6 years). (He still doesn't know I'm a zero, and blissfully proclaims size 0 girls are 'disgusting' and 'too thin'. They apparently should gain some weight to look more like me.)

I hardly ever wear make up because I already have some pretty good natural advantages. Plus... I'm engaged so like hell I care about other men's opinion on whether I'm hot or not. Still, I know I get WAY MORE whistles and cheers or praises for being "beautiful" or "hot" when I do have make up on.

Maybe Reddit men represent a small pool of men who don't care about "enhanced beauty", but the majority of men I encountered certainly do care.

P.S. I wear make up to business meetings because guys are so much nicer to women when they think the women's hot.

freezingkiss 12 points13 points 4 months ago[-]

Upvoted for truth. This is SO true.

lastbroadcast 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

Exactly. That was a lot more articulate that I could manage haha. Guys (on reddit) like to believe they're not superficial and can look past appearances and appreciate 'plump' girls but what does that even mean? It means a girl who is perfectly proportionate with large breasts, curvy hips, a flat stomach, no cellulite, and a beautiful face. Guess what, a small portion of women actually fit that 'curvy' description, so what you're really saying is I want a not anorexic but skinny girls with huge tits. Men are perfectly entitled to what they find actually, but let's not be disingenuous and pretend that you care SO DEEPLY about the person inside.

omynx 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

I don't wear make up to work but if there is a big meeting I do dress up extra nice and wear make up. You are completely right. Men are so much nicer to you when you are nicely dressed. Once I was going into a building in sweats heading to a gym and a guy let the door hit me. Any other time I am dressed up guys hold the doors/elevators/offer to carry my things.. Sadly... that is the world we live in.

kinkzoologist 1 point2 points 4 months ago* [-]

ladies are nicer to me when i am dressed up nicely as well. i recently made a conscious choice to dress sharper, stopped wearing ratty jeans and old shirts etc in lieu of trendier clothes and dress casual-esque stuff.
younger women say i look hot, and older women say i look charming. and its totally worth it. i kid you not! for the price of a few xbox games instead you could look cooler. and a lot of girls do judge you on your shoes. so big fucking whoop people generally judge on appearance, at least subconsciously. that. is. life.

jabberwocki 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

oh goodness, YES. It's night and day the way you're treated when you have make-up on/accessories than when you do not. I used to think it wasn't a major difference, but years of retail has taught me otherwise quite brutally. Sometimes customers (usually older than middle age) will come out and make comments about your lack of make-up, or they just treat you like a robot. When you do put on all the trimmings, people are nice and treat you like a human being. It's sort of disgusting.

[deleted] 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

Statistically, you are wrong.

Many studies have shown that men are considerably more tolerant of a woman's figure and face than women are of themselves. The only truly universal physical characteristics for attraction on women are facial/body symmetry and a certain hip to waist ratio.

What you are experiencing is "low common bar" communication. Throw a bunch of men into a room together as strangers and they will devolve to a set of archetypal topics (sports, beer, women, etc.) that they know they will at least find some common ground on. It's not their real behaviour with the women in their lives and certainly isn't indicative of who they date, sleep with and marry. They do it to grease the social situation and it leads to a lot of stereotypical behaviour that just isn't maintained outside of that social situation. Women do this too, with different topics of course.

momoichigo 6 points7 points 4 months ago* [-]

That does not explain my fiance's comment on size 0 women should gain some weight to look like his size 0 fiancee.

Besides, these guys make comments about pretty women when they're with me. It's not in guy parties when I hear these comments.

I assure you I also never got into any clubs for free when I was a 6 or an 8, but apparently when you're skinny clubs don't charge you.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you that men are less critical of women's bodies than women are of our own. However, this perception that men simply don't care and we should all just love ourselves whichever size we are... that is false.

Edit: I've been a size 6~8 most of my life, and went up to a 10 at some point. I am now a 0. I can tell you first hand that people treat me differently even within this limited range of clothing sizes. Size 4 and lower, people envy me. 6~8, no one cares. 8~10, I'm laughed at for being chubby. 10 isn't even that chubby now a days when women's average is 14. I think the world where people like plump girls ended sometime in the 80's.

It's also true if you go to brothels, no man ever requests a size 4 or up. (2nd hand account from a brothel manager in Australia.) Sometimes people call ahead to make sure a size 0 is waiting for them.

All sizes stated are US sizes, not UK sizes. For UK sizes, add 4.

croqueenbouche 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

i couldn't agree more. I am currently a size 4, i wear makeup, style my hair and wear nice clothes. I am sick to death of hearing my husband tell me that i should wear less makeup and that I was so much hotter when i was heavier only to catch him beating off to porn starring very "done up" girls who are my size or smaller. do men just say shit like that because they think it's expected of them? on the other hand, i have to say that standards are a little out of whack. i received the most male attention at my smallest (size 0), at which point i had stopped menstruating. from an evolutionary point of view this is sort of demented.

skribeiv 2 points3 points 4 months ago* [-]

Please don't confuse your husband's fantasy with his legitimate preference, they're not the same thing. Do not also confuse the attention you were getting at size 0 with the type of attraction you wanted.

Just like women differentiate between men who are interested in them for who they are as individuals as opposed to what they look like, men also have different standards for their one night stands than they do for their life partners. There is also a wealth of evidence suggesting that men have VERY different standards for the women that they fantasize about sexually than the women that they know personally.

The girls in porn are cartoons. Well-rounded men do not delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

EDIT: To further explain, men shower the fake looking skinny girls with attention because the arousal that they feel is purely sexual and if they turn them down when all they want to do is sleep with them then it's easy to move on. Rejection from the women you actually care about can sting, the slutty girl at the bar doesn't mean anything.

momoichigo 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Her husband and my fiance are praising their life partner for becoming a 0.

I appreciate your effort to further the perception that we don't have to try that hard to stay skinny, but your argument isn't really that legit.

Yes, people have different standards for one night stands and for life partners. The difference lies solely in personality and responsibility/finance.

Given the same personality/responsibility/financial situation, most of us would choose a hot one over the plain Jane or average Joe.

[deleted] 1 point2 points 4 months ago* [-]

Most of what you've offered here is anecdote and makes some leaps in logic.

For example, what makes you think that because the social group is small, maybe even just you and the friend, that the friend doesn't devolve to some rote behaviours? We all do, in every social situation. We just do it more when we're with strangers or uncomfortable in the social situation. Even one on one with your fiance, you will act differently with him than you will on your own and some of those behaviours will be patterned behaviours you've taught yourself via your past experiences. So, you cannot extrapolate from what that friend says in that social situation to what he DOES when he chooses his mates. You certainly can't extrapolate from that tiny sample to men as a whole.

Same thing goes with the bouncer at a club. Is he making his choice at the door because of his own personal concept of beauty, or is he making that choice on a societal stereotype of beauty or an expectation set by his employer? Check his actual dating partners versus those folks he lets in and I think you'd find a difference. Across many bouncers and clubs, there would definitely be a measurable difference between who they date collectively and who they let into the clubs.

Even your brothel example is like this. That's a social situation (and governed as a result by social behaviour, not private behaviour) and only really undertaken by a small subset of the male population, but you are extrapolating from it to men as a whole. I find it honestly ludicrous that you are comparing a business transaction that removes virtually all the normal metrics for attraction to "what men like".

I'm not saying that society doesn't value skinny these days - it definitely does - but there is a clear gender divide with how strictly men and women adhere to that standard. Clearly women care more about fitting the stereotype than men care about them fitting it. Get those men out of that social situation and alone with you, so that they drop most of their rote behaviour, and virtually all of them would have hooked up with as a 6-8 OR a 10. Most would have married you at that size, too. When they are alone, with no social pressures around, men like you at a normal size. Not all men, but most.

We all play our roles in the public. Men banter and preen, women shop and titter. It's not fair to EITHER gender that these rote behaviours jump to the forefront in social situations, but we humans are pattern seeking creatures.

Bensch 18 points19 points 4 months ago[-]

Lady, the people commenting on this thread about how they like natural beauty are pretty fucking obviously not the ones boning the trashy girls.

jollybitch 8 points9 points 4 months ago[-]

haha yeah. I've often witnessed the gravitational pull of men to the orangetan girl with raccoon eyeliner and bleached hair. sometimes I wonder if its because she's "hot" or because she seems like she has low self esteem and is an easy target.

solzhen 19 points20 points 4 months ago[-]

it's because she's easy

Helcionelloida 7 points8 points 4 months ago[-]

oh shit. Fellas, they know we know!

henry_b 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

</truth>

krueg1kt 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

I have noticed a real tendency in my life to greatly prize modesty and poise, but end up in relationships with young women who...do not exemplify those qualities. I think I have come to realize that it is because they have few qualms about paying attention to me - a modest girl might seem shy or uncomfortable if I initiate a conversation because she is not used to being forthright with men, which often feels like rejection.

This is not a defense of that pattern of behavior, in case it wasn't clear...just an explanation.

voodoochi1d 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

So, there is a female equivalent to 'Hot girls only fuck guys who treat them like shit'...

Tallon5 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I agree. It's heartening to hear guys saying they prefer the "natural look" but then I ask myself: How many girls are naturally attractive? Isn't it just a small amount?

Most girls will use make-up. But I think what guys are saying is that girls should use make-up in moderation, and it's not the most important thing that a female should be thinking about. Am I right?

kyleisagod 91 points92 points 4 months ago[-]

The most attractive girl is the one that can wake up in the morning with screwed up hair, no makeup, and still look like an angel.

/thread

noctisXII 50 points51 points 4 months ago[-]

This isn't a facebook bumper sticker. :P

uppercaseit 17 points18 points 4 months ago[-]

I am SO glad I don't know what a "facebook bumper sticker" is. Thank you, noctisXII.

wham 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

Agreed. But does this make us less superficial, or more?

eyecarumba 15 points16 points 4 months ago[-]

Beautiful people are given advantages in life that the rest of us don't have. Attractive young women tend to have the perspective that it's normal for people to give you extra attention and preferential treatment. That changes as they get older, often to their dismay.

[deleted] 4 months ago* [-]

[deleted]

deminhead 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

don't even bother. this whole this is just a huge circlejerk for nerds talking about how "natural" girls are the best.

Lone_Gunman 11 points12 points 4 months ago[-]

i have learned that if a girl is just scorching hot, you will get a equally elevated crazy level as well.

theCurious 12 points13 points 4 months ago[-]

Lucky for us, there's a chart for that!

johnleemk 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Ah, the Mendoza diagonal...

tripdub 7 points8 points 4 months ago[-]

Yes. Roughly speaking, the "hotter" the girl the more crap she'll bring to the table.

xlamplighter 37 points38 points 4 months ago[-]

No matter how hot a girl is, theres always a guy sick of putting up with her shit.

redreplicant 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

If you are a human being, there is always another human being who is sick of your shit.

cameronobscura 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

I am a firm believer that the personality and sense of humor that many of us find so attractive in women has a strong correlation to how attractive/popular that person was growing up. For example, I had a girlfriend in college who was pretty pudgy through high school and got only got into great shape in college after we started working out together. She was cute and pudgy before, and gorgeous and slender after. Because she wasn't "hot" growing up, she had a much better personality and sense of humor that the "hot" girls in high school never had to develop.

TL;DR - Many fat chicks are cool because they have to be; otherwise nobody would talk to them.

PrettyCoolGuy 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

This is very true. I have many cousins. Two of them are sisters, both in their thirties. One of them was always really skinny, the other one has always been overweight. Guess which one is really cool to hang out with and which one is a huge controlling bitch!

sal139 7 points8 points 4 months ago[-]

I've always applied the 'pool test'. If you pushed her in the pool, what would she look like? Does the makeup come off, the hairspray go away? The fake tan disappear, the body glitter rub off?

kublakhan1816 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

I know exactly what you mean. Really skinny girls with fake tans. Do not want.

dixieStates 10 points11 points 4 months ago[-]

I know what you mean. I do not find Carrie Prejean to be terribly attractive, for instance, but I think that Julia Stiles is hot, hot, hot.

Zifna 24 points25 points 4 months ago[-]

I met Julia Stiles once. My younger sister was about 12 and was a huge, huge fan. We went to Shakespeare in the Park in NYC and took our time leaving... we happened to run into a few of the actors as we were leaving. Kirsten Johnson was one of them and she was amazingly awesome and bubbly. I didn't really watch Third Rock from the Sun at the time, but it was still fantastic meeting her.

On the other hand, my sister was totally overcome with shyness in the presence of what was literally her favorite actress at the time, so I took her hand and brought her up to Julia Stiles and explained, "This is my sister _____. You are her favorite actress. She owns every movie you are in and watches them all the time. She's too shy to ask, but could you give her your autograph?"

Now, mind you, the actresses and actors are not getting mobbed... there are comparatively few people around and it was very quiet. I realize they had just come off a stage performance and may have been tired. But I will still never forgive Julia Stiles for giving this awful snorty sigh, grabbing my sister's program, scribbling something, shoving it at me, and saying "here." I mean, hey, my sister was a super cute 12-year-old. Ridiculously cute golden curls, staring at Julia Stiles around my back like she is approaching an angel or saint. Would it have killed Ms. Stiles to smile at my sister and say, "Thanks for being a fan!" or just smiled at her? Or anything? I guess she did sign the program, but my sister became much less of a fan after that, and I can't think of her as anything but a cranky bitch.

BatMally 19 points20 points 4 months ago[-]

Don't worry, she is an idiot (I listened to an NPR interview with her) and her career is in the crapper. Her shit attitude has been payed off in spades.

Anjin 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

My roommate for most of college went to high-school with her and had nothing but bad things to say about her. He couldn't stand the sight of her.

pseudologue 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Are you a guy? I'm wondering if maybe Julia Stiles thought the autograph was actually for you and you were just using your sister as an excuse for it. In any case, she sounds like a bitch.

Zifna 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

No. I am female, just a few years older than my sister.

vchip 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

I'm totally with you on Julia.

ontologicalninja 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I know someone who competed against Carrie Prejean for Miss California. My friend is a class act, someone who deserves to win beauty contests on character alone (but definitely has the looks to compete for titles), but Prejean stole her music for one of the Miss America competitions. And I'm sure she has other bad things to say about her.

[deleted] 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

I was talking about this just the other day with a friend of mine. I went to a high school that apparently specialized in producing garden-variety blond beauty queens, and ever since then I've not been attracted to that stereotypical model of feminine beauty. I love artsy girls, smart girls, geek girls, girls who are thinkers and individualists.

cameronobscura 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I think that the use of the phrase "garden-variety blond beauty queens" is very telling in this instance.

Can we agree that the reason beauty has been traditionally valued is because of its relative rarity? When everyone looks like the traditional "hot girl," they are average.

Beauty to me is a rare mix of mental, emotional, intellectual and physical characteristics that are attractive when considered together. It's the whole package, not merely what you see on your computer monitor.

GunnerMcGrath 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

For me it's not so much about "fake" as it is about "boring." So many actresses, models, etc. have such a "standard pretty" look about them that I'm totally uninterested. I've always preferred girls who were uniquely cute, and married one, who I think is far more beautiful than any Carmen Electra anyday.

justtech3 3 points4 points 4 months ago* [-]

I prefer the Mary Ann type over the Ginger type. (see Gilligan's Island) Most guys prefer one or the other. It has been claimed that men seeking long term relationships prefer the Mary Ann type, this isn't necessarily true but makes for a good argument. My personal experience has been the Mary Ann types are easier to have a conversation with. The Ginger types just by the nature of their personal style spend more money on superficial and wasteful indulgences, which I find annoying.

GodHatesChristians 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

A girl who dresses and makes herself up over the top all the time isn't my style, but one who is cute and casual but can pull out all the stops when required is awesome.

spainguy 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

There are many ways of measuring temperature

bobolux 7 points8 points 4 months ago[-]

Especially if they have ever been told they were "perfectly hot" and believed it.

pav413 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

I love my natural and intellectual girls. Sorry but trying to talk to a beautiful airhead just makes me want to rather stare at a wall, it just wont work.

Kativla 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

Hey, boys--what is makeup "in moderation" to you? No lipstick or foundation? That still leaves concealer, powder, eyeliner, eyeshadow, mascara, and lip gloss. Don't forget blush, bronzer, eyebrow pencils, highlighter...a lot more goes into the "natural" look than you think.

Don't even get me started on hair or nails. I promise you the difference between the "natural look" and actually going au natural is pretty goddamn profound, even for the super-hot.

[deleted] 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Upvoted, because I LOVE makeup. LOVE IT. I wanted to be a makeup artist at some point - I enjoy the colors, the textures, the endless possibilities with contouring...

But yeah, if I wear heavy makeup, my boyfriend complains and tells me that I look better with no makeup on. We compromise with light neutral makeup - I still get to play with my toys and he gets a more natural-looking girlfriend. Even my "light neutral" makeup consists of eyeliner, mascara, a little eyeshadow, blush and gloss. Most people would not notice that I have makeup on, but I normally spend 10-15 minutes every morning "putting on my face", so to speak.

Oddly enough he thinks Megan Fox is the hottest thing alive and she DOES wear quite a bit. Men are weird. I really do think celebrities are held to a different standard and "normal" girls.

feckineejit 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I find girls with silicone in the boobies or fake lips, fake tan, fake blond, etc. to be a turn off. Anything fake is a huge turnoff, also I like a little junk in the trunk.

TwoManShoe 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

they fall under a category I call "generically hot" yeah they're attractive, but only because they're following the rules of looking good, and that's not very interesting.

senrad 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

Skinny isn't hot it's ugly (sorry Sweet D from Sunny in Philly). I find angelina Jolie to be ok but nothing special.

cameronobscura 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

When Angie's blowing Brad, who does he think about so he can finish? Poor guy...

secretchimp 6 points7 points 4 months ago[-]

I don't like the modern idea of "hot." Jessica Alba - not hot. Christina Hendricks - hook it up.

bmilo 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

Jessica Alba was hotter before she lost the weight. She was hot in Dark Angel.

CuilRunnings 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

You're not going to see a lot of honest answers in this thread but it's due to a superiority complex. A lot of the geek types here think that they're awesome and intelligence is the only thing that matter. So if a certain type of girl could never be interested in them, then there obviously must be something wrong with the girl. Convenient excuses are "surgery is gross, too much make-up, etc" trying to turn their strength (beauty) into a weakness. You can tell because any of the guys that say that type of thing stammers all over themselves when a girl like that talks to them. They would obviously hit... they're just kidding themselves.

deminhead 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

i couldn't agree with you more. your comments needs to go all the way to the top. but it's too bad that the geeks with the superiority complex are running reddit.

zeo1137 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

Megan Fox....... I do not see the appeal.

dalore 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Yer, I prefer your mom, all natural.

kenvsryu 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

beggars can't be choosers.

oyeahu2 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I was married to a gal who I thought was cute (nice ass also) but was far from beautiful, but when she would laugh... that was what stole my heart. Honest injun oh and she came harder than any girl I have ever seen (bout the same as Cytherea)

[deleted] 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I convince myself to think that they are unattractive because i will never get with any of them.

tesseracter 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

freckles kill me. far better than single hue skin.

deminhead 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

that's just a fetish.

nadmaximus 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Models and the ideal commonly put forth as beautiful/hot is the creation of gay guys and self-hating women. And that's fine - it just looks ridiculous to me, and is unilaterally unappealing.

Welcome to the world of the mature heterosexual male!

Snapdad 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I tend to prefer amateur pr0n for this reason.

skevimc 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I totally agree with you. Megan Fox and Angelina Jolie are the first to pop in to my mind. Yes they are pretty. Yes they are hot. But I find them to be so unattractive.

ub3rm3nsch 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

I find sexy, intelligent, devious, and charming to be attractive. Not barbie!

ama09 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

i find girls that are slightly awkward to be the most attractive, i would never want to date a girl that was drop dead gorgeous, they have never really appealed to me

cameronobscura 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Dating 10s sucks -- you always have to stay sober enough to fight.

monsturbater 3 points4 points 4 months ago* [-]

I dont think they are necessarily unattractive, but I definitely prefer a girl that looks real.

If there were two girls sitting on a bench, one wearing a hot summer dress, heels, and makeup, or a girl wearing a hoodie and jeans reading a book, I would definitely approach the girl reading a book.

I know there are more guys like me out there that will agree, Natural Beauty > Fake Beauty

EDIT: I think yall are missing my point, and I didnt mean it the way its being construed. I am more physically attracted to the girls that dont go that extra mile, girls that have a natural "glow" about them. Maybe I'm weird, but when I see the girls that are all dolled up, they just dont do it for me.

G325C9 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

I saw a girl reading a book on campus a few days ago. As I approached her, I bent over to see the book title, and told her, "The dog dies," and kept walking along. She gave me the Look of Death.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FLIRT.

yammez [S] 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

Yes, I agree! Natural is leagues better.

Barrel_Proof 3 points4 points 4 months ago* [-]

I would have agreed with you when I was a young teenager and I was a little intimidated by the fair sex, but after growing up, I've learned that that pretty bird has just as good of a chance of having a great personality as plain jane next to her. Some women are actually hampered by their own looks and I take it upon myself to find them out. If most of these comments on here are true, then that just leaves more women for me. Also, note that there is almost never a time when a choice between meeting two women has to be made. Talk to them both.

longcat99 4 points5 points 4 months ago[-]

Unfortunately, not every girl is naturally beautiful... thus, the make-up. What would you expect the natural 3/10's to do to attract a guy?

dill_pickles 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Ok this is ridiculous...so hot natural girl vs ugly girl who wears makeup. I think everyone would agree with you. I don't know any girls who I could honestly say look better without at least a little well placed makeup. These natural beauties are not a dime a dozen, and the truth of the matter is all the girls you find attractive probably touch themselves up a bit before going out in public. Girls who wear excessive makeup are usually the girls with low self esteem because they think they're ugly, and most of the time they're right.

[deleted] 4 months ago[-]

[deleted]

corbalt 2 points3 points 4 months ago[-]

Yeah who needs the fantasy world of reading? I only live in the real world. Real dumb.

9SierraDelta 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

well that's not very nice. She's reading.

karnoculars 5 points6 points 4 months ago[-]

Why do people keep bashing girls that wear makeup and do their hair nice? That's so presumptious to assume that if a girl cares about her appearance, she must be an idiot. No wonder so many girls are pissed off at men.

I happen to think most "hot" celebs or models are, in fact, very hot. I have yet to see a Victoria Secret model that I'd turn down. I must not be as enlightened as everyone else in this thread.

TomOfTheWild 3 points4 points 4 months ago[-]

I don't like super hot women because they have a ton of bullshit that comes with them. Nothing quite like having to battle 10+ other suitors, and I'll be damned if she expects me to pay for every fucking thing just because she's good arm candy.

andrewjs42 1 point2 points 4 months ago* [-]

Matching Hypothesis, social psychology.

From Wikipedia:

"The matching hypothesis is a popular social psychology theory proposed by Walster et al. in 1966, it suggests why people become attracted to their partner. It claims that people are more likely to form long standing relationships with those who are equally physically attractive as they are."

Edit: This explanation is a bit uglier than the one people are looking for, but I think it's a bit more honest. I can say objectively that many celebrities are very good looking, but I'm not attracted to them per se.

seffrican 0 points1 point 4 months ago[-]

Jessica Simpson, I guess you could say she is good looking but she is so stupid that it turns me off. I don't find her attractive at all.

[deleted] 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Of course, just talk to one for 10 minutes, and you realize 9/10 beautiful woman have no appeal other then their looks, and the other 1/10 is already married, happily. best to take a reasonably attractive woman who you really really like.

lostpuppyofdoom 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I find Eva Mendes very unattractive. That, and she's a bad actress.

adamwho 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

When women look like they are putting a lot of effort into their looks (other than exercise) then I become suspicious of their character.

machinas 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

There's a girl I work with who is really hot, but her personality, intellect and the fact that she wears 3+ lbs of makeup makes her unattractive to me.

deminhead 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

if she needs 3+ pounds of makeup to look good she's not that attractive to begin with is she?

otahak 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

People are crazy about pam anderson.. me? Not so much.

Efflux 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Hot girls are usually needy bitches and that's the ultimate turn off for me.

starthirteen 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

I am anti-makeup all the way.

stalk_of_fennel 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

yup

Rantingbeerjello 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

Yeah, when I see the celebrities people freak out over, my first thought is usually "Damn, she needs to eat something"

vault101 1 point2 points 4 months ago[-]

It's bizarre because nothing is natural about them, and as a result, you have no idea what they really look like. I just don't like the idea that so many people are constantly altering every single aspect of their appearance.